50 Erroneus Proofs of God's Non-Existence 1:99-104

Point 5 is, of course, the most obvious point in which your proof fails. Your oft-times stated lack of belief in the things the Father so clearly says in the Holy Scriptures, also declares your disbelief, in His testimony regarding Jesus. As  long as you refuse to acknowledge the Lord's Divinity, you cannot claim to possess faith in Him. The proof of this lies in the fact that not only do you call God a liar, as described in the point we are currently discussing (by failure to accept His testimony), but you flat out called both Jesus, and His Father, liars, in your earlier comments on the Scriptures you offered as support for your proof. Thus, by your own words, you have placed yourself outside the realm of offering genuine prayer, so there is nothing of which you can claim the Father's failure to answer.

Finally, we have Point 6, and this brings us to the matter of "obedience". I mentioned this in the earliest parts of this document, when I asked, "...for that matter, where is obedience?" At that time I was pointing out that the prayer you suggested was more like a test that would clearly, and without any doubt, prove the existence of God, should He choose to answer it. After seeing such a thing occur, there would be no need of "faith", since the matter would have been completely settled. The problem is, as I mentioned above, for whatever reasons God may have for doing so, He has declared that anyone who wishes to see Him will have to do so, by believing (having faith in) the Gospel that was brought through Christ Jesus, and handed down to us through the disciples. Just one verse prior to the last Scripture I quoted, Paul has this to say,

"I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile."

Romans 1:16

If we disobey God's command to believe in Jesus' name, than that disobedience removes our God-given right (as believers) to petition Him in the name of His son, and thus, we should not expect to receive any of the things we desire of Him. However,

"...if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God and receive from Him anything we ask, because we obey His commands and do what pleases Him. And this is His command: to believe in the name of His Son, Jesus Christ....Those who obey His commands live in Him, and He in them..."

1 John 3:21-24 (Emphasis mine.)

And let us not forget that believing in Jesus involves praying only for such things "as God has promised".

We can shed even more light on this entire matter by taking a closer look at the three verses that you included in your reference. Within these verses, let us take special note of the one precise usage by Jesus, in v.12, of the phrase “faith in me”, (which we have, in a general manner, already spoken of above), and His usage of the second phrase previously mentioned, that Jesus apparently deems to be of such importance, that He uses it not just once, but twice, in v.14, “in my name”. What exactly do these phrases mean within the context that they are found here, and how do their meanings affect the promises that are made. Let us begin with the latter.

Unlike what so many believers and unbelievers appear to think, to pray "in Jesus’ name" does not involve merely invoking that Name in some manner similar to a magical incantation, which might be offered by the more superstitious among us, in order to acquire luck, or some such thing. Spirituality is not magic. So, in an effort to be as clear, and concise as possible, I will call upon one of those authorities I mentioned earlier whose written works comprise at least a part of my reading list. The following quotation comes from the comments which are to be found in “The Anchor Bible”, and I certainly could not explain it any better than they have already done.

“A Christian prays in Jesus’ name in the sense that he is in union with Jesus…because the Christian is in union with Jesus and Jesus is in union with the Father, there can be no doubt that the Christian’s requests will be granted. This context of union with Jesus also suggests that the requests of the Christian are now no longer thought of as requests concerning the petty things of life (in opposition to the amazing things of God) – they are requests of such a nature that when they are granted the Father is glorified in the son (see verse 13 in the reference we are presently considering). They are requests pertinent to the Christian life and to the continuation of the work by which Jesus glorified the Father during His ministry.[1]” (Emphasis and parenthetical statements mine.)

 The last point mentioned in the above-given excerpt is of special importance to an understanding of what Jesus meant when He said in the Scriptures you referred to,

 "...anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these..."  --John 14:12 (Emphasis mine.) 

What Jesus had in fact been doing was His Father's work, and spreading the Good News. Jesus was telling His disciples that they also would be doing the Father's work, and theirs would be an even greater work, since they would take the message of the gospel, outside of Palestine where Jesus had walked, and into the whole world. When taken in the context of the passage, these are the greater works the Lord is speaking of. The disciples (at least some of them) did also perform miracles that were recorded in the Bible, but the performing of miracles can never be compared to the importance of spreading the Holy Word. Miracles are seldom, if ever, the means to salvation, unless we are speaking of the miraculous instilling into our hearts, of belief and saving grace, through the agency of the Holy Spirit. 

So you see, the reason I said you have not taken the words of the Lord literally enough is based on the fact that lacking that presence of the Holy Spirit in your life, you can truly have no concept of what Jesus was speaking about when He used the phrase “in my name”, and as a result, you are using it far too lightly, in far too broad a sense. You were correct, however, when you labelled the Lord’s statement as “unambiguous”, since any ambiguity contained within the statement is actually manifested by your lack of knowledge pertaining to the things of the Spirit.

Regarding "faith" we have already said much in our replies to your earlier comments. So at this point, I only wish to look specifically at the phrase "faith in me" and what it actually entails when used in the manner Jesus used it in verse 12 of your reference. First of all, as we have already mentioned, the phrase is used to qualify the pronoun "anyone", reducing the general meaning to a far more specific one. Not just "anyone", but "anyone who has faith in me". For a person to truly benefit from this qualifying statement, they have to first have some idea as to what it means. 

If I were to tell you that, "soil is quite odourless in the absence of the actinomycetes", you might not be able to do much with that, until you first understood that actinomycetes are a form of bacteria that actually contribute to producing in soil it's healthy earth-like aroma. (When you see a farmer sniffing his soil, it is quite likely this particular smell that he is looking for; and if it is absent, his soil is pretty much dead, and should be more properly called "dust", hence the term "the great dust-bowl" referring to large patches of bad land). And just as the implications of "the absence of actinomycetes" need, in this example, to be understood for true enlightenment in the area of "Soil Sciences", so with the implications of the phrase "believe in me", when used by Jesus in the Scriptures.

As a Christian, I understand that to believe in Jesus, my life has to be one with His. That is not to say, or imply in any manner, that I am in any way Divine. It does, however, mean that my desires must be His desires, and within the confines of my present humanity, my thoughts must be His thoughts. Paul states this quite clearly, when he says,

"...So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God's law, but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin."

Romans 7:25b (Emphasis mine.)

or yet again,

"'For who has known the mind of the Lord

            that he may instruct Him?'

But we (Christians) have the mind of Christ."

1 Corinthians 2:16 (Emphasis and parenthetical statement mine.)

Clearly, if we believe what Jesus said about His being one with God, and if we also believe what Jesus told us about our being one with Him, then we know within ourselves the things that our Lord knows, and He knows the things of God that we need to know. And it is this kind of intimacy with God that Jesus promises, if we truly believe in Him. 

And I think I should clarify one of the points I just made, before we move on. And that is where we will start tomorrow.

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[1] “The Anchor Bible, The Gospel According To John, vol. 29a,”, Raymond E. Brown, S.S., Doubleday and Company, Inc., 1970, p.636

50 Erroneus Proofs of God's Non-Existence 1:95-99

Now it is also at this point in the given reference that we should attempt to clarify somewhat, a very important concept that we have, as of yet, not really dealt with in any real depth. What does it actually mean to "have faith in" Jesus? It will require an answer to this question before the entire reference can be understood. Once our conclusion to the above consideration is arrived at, however, I think we will see that in regard to your question as to whether we are taking the Saviour’s words “too literally”, the actual case truly is, as I stated earlier, that you are not taking His words literally enough.

To begin with, I offer below some excerpts regarding the definition of "faith" from an entry in "Fausset's Bible Cyclopaedia".[1] What is faith:

1.      the substance of things hoped for

2.      the evidence of things not seen

3.      Faith accepts the truths revealed on the testimony of God...that testimony being to us given in Holy Scripture.

4.      Where sight is, there faith ceases.

5.      In its barest primary form, faith is simply crediting or accepting God's testimony ...Not to credit it is to make God a "liar"!...The necessary consequence of crediting God's testimony...is believing in the Son of God; for He, and salvation in Him alone, form the grand subject of God's testimony.

6.      Faith is also an obedience to God's command to believe (1 John 3:23).

Perhaps points 2 and 4 in the above list would be the easiest of the lot to consider, with an eye towards explanation, but let us take at least a brief look at each of the points in turn, while adding a little more depth to those easier-to understand items as we come to them.

When we speak of "the substance of things hoped for", point 1, we must first determine, what those things that we are hoping for consist of. The primary substance of the Christian concern, is the hope for salvation from the curse of sin. Our assurance of receiving that which we desire (hope for) is the result of the faith we have in God's Word, that He provided a Plan of Salvation, and that that Plan was accomplished through the incarnation, life, death, and resurrection of His Blessed Son. This particular type of "faith" is probably best described as: "Belief in God, religion, or spiritual things[2]". This is one of the main ways a Christian uses this word.

In point 2, we have a definition of faith that is experienced just as frequently by professed non-believers, as by believers. This same definition, "the evidence of things not seen", really takes the force out of any statement made by an individual who claims they have no faith, in anything. There are countless examples I could use to illustrate this point, but any single one of the few which follow should suffice.

For instance, when you get up in the morning and head off to work, I don't imagine you take a couple of hundred pounds of lead weights with you in an attempt to avoid flying off the surface of the earth into outer space, or an oxygen bottle to prevent asphyxiation. Your faith in gravity and atmospheric oxygen, both things that can't be seen, allow you to avoid all that trouble. If I asked you why you bought your spouse flowers and you said it was because of love, I wouldn't ask you to show it to me. My faith in the concept of love would make me believe you. As you probably want to point out, there are ways of testing for gravity, as well as for oxygen, but if you really think there are definite ways of testing for actual love, I would simply point out that not even a spouse could accomplish that, as testified to by the number of people murdered each year by their partners, and even their own blood relatives.

Point 3 is very similar to what we already discussed when talking about Point 1. It is my faith in God's Word (His testimony) that is behind my belief in His Son, and my faith in Jesus' teachings that are behind my belief in the accuracy of Scripture. Until a person believes in God, they will never have true belief in His Son, and thus the promises contained in the Word do not pertain to them. In addition to not claiming those promises, they should also not assume that just because those promises don't relate to them in their current state of unbelief, that they are somehow false promises that don't relate to anyone, at any time, including themselves should a time arrive, when, by an action of their own free will, and the assistance of the Holy Spirit, they choose to return unto their creator in faith and genuine belief.

Now point 4 is perhaps, in direct connection to our present discussion, the true crux of the matter, and the point that relates most clearly to the stance you have taken. In your request of the Lord in the prayer you have stipulated, you can look at it in any manner that you so choose, but in the end, one specific truth stands out from the rest; you are asking God to provide proof of His existence. Since we already discussed the inappropriateness of this when we discussed the matter of Gideon, I won't rehash the entire thing again, but will simply quote the following Scripture as support for what I said in that place.

"For in the Gospel a righteousness from God is revealed, a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: "The righteous will live by faith.""

Romans 1:17

Since, as points 2 and 4 make clear, faith doesn't exist where there is sight (proof), and since you can have no relationship to God without faith (as stated in the above-given Scripture), your suggested prayer becomes a self-defeating prophecy, and has no validity. The concept of God curing a specific case of cancer, in a specific situation, still leaves enough question about his involvement in the matter, that it would only serve to increase an individual's faith, whereas the curing of every case of cancer in the world in one night, in direct answer to a prayer, would prove beyond any question, God's existence, resulting in the loss of faith, and along with that, the loss of any chance at salvation.

It should also be understood that faith is not the only way for God to act, but it is the method that He has chosen to employ, and unlike you, I refuse to anthropomorphize The Lord of Creation by demanding that He act in what I see as the "accepted human manner". Also, unlike you, I am not arrogant enough to think I can dictate to a Being of His Nature, nor am I self-centered enough to think I can understand His reasons for acting in whatever manner He so chooses. And we will pick up our discussion, regarding the remaining points, and the rest of your "proof", tomorrow. Until then....

TO BE CONTINUED......

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[1] "Bible Cyclopaedia",  A.R.Fausset, M.A., The S.S.Scranton Company, Hartford, Conn., 1913, p.226

[2] "Gage Canadian Dictionary", Walter S. Avis et al., Gage Learning Corporation, Toronto, 1983, p.426 def.2

50 Erroneus Proofs of God's Non-Existence 1:89-94

John 14:12-14

"I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father. You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it."

Your comments read as follows:

“Look at how direct this statement is: "You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it." This is the "Son of God" speaking. Have we taken him "too literally?" No. This is a simple, unambiguous statement. Have we taken his statement "out of context?" No - Jesus uses the word anyone. Yet Jesus' statement is obviously false. Because when we ask God to cure cancer tonight, nothing happens.”

Before anything else is said, it must be noted that regarding the two questions you pose in your comments, only the first of your given answers is correct, but even though that answer is correct, it is not accurate in the way you apparently think it is. The given response, “No”, is correct not because you have taken the words of our Lord “too literally”, but because you fail to take them “literally enough”. We shall see why in that which follows. As for the second question to which your reply is once again, “No”,  I suggest you most certainly have taken the words out of their context, and furthermore, I seriously doubt that you could explain the context to me even if I were to ask you. Thus, your obvious difficulty at staying “in” context.

The initial statement in your reply, however, is right on the money. The words Jesus speaks in these verses truly are “direct”. Rather than isolate a single sentence in your reference from the rest, however, as you have done, or for that matter, rather than separating your reference from the beginning of the conversation that began in John 14:1, we must take the Scripture as a whole, and in order to accomplish that, we really do need to begin, at the very least, with the question that Thomas asked in verse 5, which brought forth the Lord's ensuing reply.

Thomas was commenting on what Jesus had just told His disciples, regarding the fact that they should not be sad that He was about to leave them, since He was going so that He could prepare a place for them, and He would surely return, so that He could take them to that place (John 14:1-3). He then told them that they already knew the way to that place (a reference to having faith, and trust in Jesus and the Father, which is the path we all must use, and a path that we all should know).

"Thomas said to him, 'Lord, we don't know where you are going, so how can we know the way?"

"Jesus answered, 'I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know Him and have seen Him.'"

John 14:5-7 (Emphasis mine.)

Now there is a great deal that we could discuss regarding the Scriptures just given, but since we are actually dealing with a verse that appears later in this particular accounting, we should just use this one, as is necessary, to clarify that later verse. For now, let us just continue.

After hearing Jesus' answer to Thomas' question, a second disciple added his voice to the conversation,

"Philip said, 'Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.'

            John 14:8

It seems to me that what Philip was asking for was "proof", very much so as you are doing today. Even though it was common among believers during that period, as well as in our own, to believe that seeing the Glory of The Lord with human eyes would result in the death of the unfortunate one who should experience it (another topic for another time), still, there had been limited exceptions (something Philip would almost certainly have known). Moses, and several other prophets experienced "visions of God" (Theophanies), though they were watered down in various ways, as did Gideon, who we spoke of earlier. In each of those cases, those who experienced the events, survived, perhaps due to the watered-down nature of the vision, or even more likely, due to the Lord's Mercy and Graciousness.

It should be noted here, that Philip was apparently a good disciple, one of the first several to be called by Jesus,  and in every mention of him, it seems we hear only good things. He was actively involved in the Lord's miracle of the loaves (John 6:5-13), it was he to whom the Greeks attending the Feast brought their request to meet Jesus (John 12:20-22), and even when Philip was originally commanded by Jesus to "Follow me" (John 1:43b), he wasted no time in proving his unselfishness by quickly finding his friend Nathanael, testifying to him about Jesus being the one Moses had written about, and then inviting Nathanael to come and see for himself (John 1:45).

It is for the reasons given above that I don't believe Philip's request to Jesus to "show us the Father", spoke of any special dullness, or naïveté, or lack of faith on the disciple's part that was not common among many of the disciples, at that exact time in their walk with Jesus. Rather, I think Philip truly felt a deep desire to see the Father, and hadn't yet fully grasped, that, in Jesus, whom he had been travelling with for approximately three years, he had already seen the true essence of the Father in heaven. This is what Jesus was about to tell him yet again, but just before we look at that, there is another possibility for Philip's request that I have just recently in my readings seen suggested, and I would like to offer an excerpt from my study material to explain its premise.

"B. Weiss suggests that some whisper of the Transfiguration-glory (see Luke 9:28-36) had escaped from the favoured three (the disciples chosen to accompany Jesus up the Mount of Transfiguration, who were then instructed by Jesus not to tell anyone, at that time, about what they had been so blessed to witness) leading the other disciples to desire a corresponding theophany.[1]" I certainly think that that might be a distinct possibility.

At any rate, whatever the actual reason was for Philip's question, Jesus answered,

"'...Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'? Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing His work. Believe me when I say I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves.

John 14:9-11 (Emphasis mine.)

There seems to be a certain amount of sadness at Philip's apparent lack of spiritual progress in the Lord's first question, and His ensuing comment of explanation. In His second and third questions, however, I get much more of a sense of how He seems to be guiding Philip into self-reflection, bringing the disciple to a questioning of what it is that he truly believes. When He then implores Philip to "Believe me" it is because that is not just the best of the roads to salvation that Philip could take, it is the only successful road to be certain. When He continues by saying, "at least believe on the evidence of the miracles, it is because without belief in Jesus, Philip would have to return to the beginning of his spiritual path, which is quite often, believing, but for the wrong reasons; a state in which many, if not all, believers, began their journey of faith. Though a belief of that nature is an excellent place to begin, it is not a "saving" belief, which only comes through belief in Jesus. And this conversation continues right on into the Scriptures that you have referenced.

In verse 12, Jesus clearly states “…anyone who has faith in me…”, so we can plainly see that the promises herein contained are only pertinent to unbelievers should they ever accept the call of the Spirit to return in faith unto the Lord, at which time, they would not be unbelievers anymore. The clause "...who has faith in me..." is that which qualifies the pronoun "...anyone..." By the very clarity of the qualification, the word "anyone" refers only to those who have “faith in Jesus”. If you don’t believe in God, it stands to reason that you don’t believe in His Son, so I’m very interested in knowing how you can claim to have faith in a figure which you don’t believe exists. We shall try and supply you with the tools needed to grasp the principle I am attempting to make, when we pick this up tomorrow.

Just before we leave, however, it should also be noted that exactly as the phrase "who has faith in me" limits the scope of the word, "anyone", so does the phrase, "in my name" limit, and restrict, the meaning of the second word you latched onto, the word "anything", as found in verse 14 of your reference. Neither of the two words in question can be taken as you have tried to take them, since you, in both cases, neglected to include the qualifying phrases. So you see, despite your continual objections to Christians who claim that you have taken things "out of context", the simple fact of the matter is, you have, and as long as you continue to do so, you should expect to hear that statement continually repeated. After all, it's not paranoid behaviour on the part of Christians who accuse you of this practice, if in fact, it's really happening, as it clearly is. But for now...

TO BE CONTINUED……

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[1] "The Pulpit Commentary, The Gospel of John", H.D.M. Spence, M.A, D.D., Wm.B. Eerdmans Publishing Co., 1950, p.223  (Parenthetical statements are mine.)

50 Erroneus Proofs of God's Non-Existence 1:84-89

Now let us look at what the phrase "belief in Jesus" generally involves when used in the Scriptures, or in the speech of a Christian.  By way of illustration, we can take a look at what it means when one person asks another, "Do you believe in 'free speech'?"  The first person is obviously not asking if the second person believes that there is something called 'free speech' that exists within the world, whether its actual definition is clear or not. That fact is a taken, to deny it would be to fly in the face of reality. What the question actually seeks to find out is if the second person believes in the principles behind the idea of "Free Speech". Does the person believe that all people, everywhere, should have the right to voice their opinion, without fear of undue retribution? If you think that this is a no-brainer, and that this idea does live everywhere already, I refer you to the recently-sentenced members of "Pussy Riot" that we have been hearing of lately, in Russia. Two years in a Russian prison for their attempt to challenge Putin's ties to the State Church would seem to suggest that Free Speech is not believed in by the Russian government , nor the Orthodox Church of Russia, who were actually demanding a much stronger sentence. Again, that doesn't mean that they disbelieve reports of such a thing as "free will" existing, they just don't believe in the principle of the thing. The very same idea holds true regarding "belief in Jesus".

To believe in our Lord, in a Biblical sense, one has to believe in the principles that He stood for, and also what God has testified to, regarding Jesus. They have to believe that He was NOT a liar, and that He was exactly who He claimed to be, the long-awaited Christ, the Son of God. They have to believe also, that just as God's Holy Word testifies to, Jesus was born of a virgin, lived as a man, died on the cross at Calvary, and was raised again from the dead, by God, on the third day following His crucifixion, and death. We must also believe in all the teachings He imparted onto us through His disciples, and do our best to obey them,  proving our solidarity with the ideas behind each and every one of those teachings (no believer succeeds in doing this anywhere near perfectly, but we continue to try, and have faith that our Father will honour the effort). Consider Jesus' call to the people at the beginning of His ministry:

" 'The time has come,' He said. 'The Kingdom of God is near. Repent and believe the good news!' "

Mark 1:15 (Emphasis mine.)

It is of special interest that the above quotation is the very first occurrence of Jesus' words in the Book of Mark, thus, quite possibly, the first message to the people that He chose to deliver. And we have to note also that Jesus did not just say "believe" and leave it at that, but rather, He took the time to tell us just what it is that we need to believe; we need to believe the "good news", another way of saying "the gospel". This same thought is echoed by Paul in Acts 15 when  he says,

"...Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the Gospel and believe."

Acts 15:7

A little further in Book of The Acts, we have the recounting of the story involving the jailor in charge of Paul and Silas, who asked them what exactly he must do to be saved,

"They replied, 'Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved -- you and your household.' Then they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all the others in His house."

Acts 16:31-32 (Emphasis mine.)

Notice that Paul takes the time to report that they spoke the Word of the Lord to everyone in the house. He apparently thought that this was important enough to make mention of. That is because Salvation comes through belief in the Lord, and spiritual growth comes through the nourishment of the Holy Word.

Nowadays, Paul has long-since gone home to His Maker. Thus, we may not have the benefit of his personally teaching us, but we do have his thoughts, preserved within the Bible, and so we read, or listen to a pastor as he attempts in the power of the Spirit, to illuminate these words for those of us in his congregation. This idea of believing is so important as to be worthy of yet one more clarifying verse:

"...that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming: That if you confess with your mouth, 'Jesus is Lord,' and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved."

Romans 10:8b-10  (Emphasis mine.)

I have to point out that it appears you are trying to "believe with your mouth", and "confess with your biased imagination". This simply will not work. And there are so many other Scriptures that speak of the true essence of belief, that entire volumes could, and have, been written on this topic, by countless men smarter than me. I humbly refer you to those works for clarification, or further consideration of this subject.

At any rate, the point of all this, is that "belief", like "sincerity" (of which we spoke earlier) is not something you can just turn on or off. In fact, the "belief that receives from God", which is quite apparently the belief you are most interested in, is not even the result of anything we might do; we can never obtain it by ourselves. It is a gift from God, yet again, to believers, or those truly and sincerely seeking after God, who by His Grace, and  His willingness to reward those who sincerely search for Him, are about to become believers. Without this crucial type of belief, or faith, our quest for reconciliation with God can only be fruitless. But you can be certain that God will impart this gift unto you, implanting it in your heart, as soon as you truly seek after His Will for your life.

So the conclusion of this particular matter is really quite straightforward. As you yourself have recognized, and reflected in your own comments, the whole matter of receiving from God, that which we request of Him, hinges on the prerequisite of "believing". As you yourself stated "If we believe....". Since it's very unlikely that such a staunch non-believer as yourself should actually hold within their heart a "true" belief in God (or he/she wouldn't be making the claims you have been making), then your premise fails due to your own admitted lack of belief. And if you say that I'm in error because you were only offering a hypothetical situation, then it must also be noted that the impossibility of the conditions which you have outlined, send your hypothetical situation into the realm of pure fantasy, and I can reply that in that fantasy world of yours, your prayer was in fact answered, and all forms of cancer were indeed eliminated from the earth as a direct result of your prayer. That's why it's a fantasy world, it can work in any way that you or I choose. However, if we remain in the real world, then there are prerequisites to effective prayer, and you, as a confirmed unbeliever, are unable to meet any of them. Once again, God did not fail to answer a prayer, but in truth, no real prayer was ever offered in the circumstances you describe. So let us continue.

50 Erroneus Proofs of God's Non-Existence 1:80-84

Mark 11:24

“Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours.”

Your comment reads:

 “If God says, "believe that you have received it, and it will be yours," and if we believe in God and his power, then what should happen if we pray to cure cancer tonight? It should be cured. Either that, or God is lying.”

Once again, you err in your comment, and resort to another failed attempt at the use of the technique known as "Reductio ad absurdum (Latin: "reduction to absurdity")" .In addition, as opposed to your usual error of incorrectly labelling the reference itself, you have this time simply chosen to omit the first part of the very same Scripture that you yourself offered as evidence, which actually reads, “Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer,…”. This again, as we have already discussed above, excludes non-believers, since the Lord only hears the prayers of those, who first, believe in Him. You yourself state in your comment “if we believe in God and His power”, which you clearly don’t, since I'm almost certain (by your usage of it) that you don't even understand what that particular phrase means. We shall try to enhance your understanding, in just a moment, but first we must note that in addition to your apparent lack of understanding, you have also once again taken the statement completely out of context, by not including in your reference the previous 4 verses, which both set the stage, so to speak, for the verse which you did in fact use (verse 24), and also make clarity of that particular verse possible.

In verses 20-21, we have Jesus and His disciples travelling along the way, after departing from Jerusalem. Jesus had just cleansed the temple of all those who were engaged in commerce within its confines. As they walked along the next morning, Peter took notice of a fig tree that Jesus had cursed the day before as they were entering the city, and saw that the fig tree was already withered all the way down to the roots. Now the story of the fig tree is, in and of itself, very important, containing crucial lessons that we may yet have to look at in a more appropriate place. We do not need to pursue this train of thought right at this moment, however, since what Jesus chose to respond to was not so much the matter of the fig tree, but Peter's astonishment at the effectiveness of Jesus' curse, witnessed by the speed of the fig tree's demise.

First of all, Jesus exhorts Peter to "Have faith in God," (v.22), and as I've already stated, we will look at this matter of faith, and how it is defined, in much more detail in our reply to your reference that follows this one. For now, however, I am more interested in discussing a concept that is referenced not only in verse 23, but yet again, in the actual verse you offered as proof, verse 24. This, of course, is the concept of "believing", and it is one of the foremost pillars of the Christian faith[1]. But what exactly does it mean? How is it to be understood in its various manifestations within the Holy Word?

To begin with, let us make sure that we have an understanding of what "believe" does not mean, at least not in the occurrences in question . For instance, it does not mean "to simply accept the existence of" a particular person, or place, or whatever. Perhaps, I should say instead, that it does mean this, but not in the commonly-understood manner that people use it every day. If I were to ask you if you believed there was a mountain on earth referred to as Mount Everest, and you answered "yes", it could then be said, quite reasonably, that you "believe" in Mount Everest. And this is exactly what many people mean when they say they "believe in Jesus". In both Christian, and Academic circles, that would be referred to as "believing in the historical Jesus", and it actually is a common and well-accepted belief; the belief that a man named Jesus of Nazareth, existed in the ancient Middle East. Many believe that this "historical" Jesus was a great man, a teacher of very high repute, and an advocate of peace. Others still, believe that this same Jesus was somewhat of a radical, who fell afoul of, and was later executed by, the Roman State. Unfortunately, for many people, that is where their belief ends.

Whatever your personal belief in the details, however, as long as you accept that Jesus existed, then yes, you can honestly state that you "believe in Jesus".  Regrettably, on an eternal scale, the possession of that specific piece of information, will mean absolutely nothing, since it is, at best, merely trivia, and is possessed of no power by which you may be saved from the wrath that is yet to come. If this type of belief about Jesus is all you have when you die, then you have nothing, and an eternity in paradise will have slipped through your fingers. And I would like you to consider one other aspect of this. If you, like so many other people, think it won't be so bad because you'll be dead and gone, you are wrong. The soul is eternal, and if you fail in obtaining paradise, you will have an eternity to continually regret throwing it all away for the fleeting pleasures of a world that appeared and ended in the relative blink of an eye.

There is a somewhat interesting aspect of this everyday form of believing in Jesus, that I would like to consider for a moment; the fact that the accepted views of non-believers, who agree with the worldly opinion of who Jesus is/was, appear quite often, to be totally contradictory. As a Christian, I have had to sit through numerous occasions, listening to casual dialogue about my Lord and Saviour, debated by worldly people (as opposed to Christians). Two of the most commonly repeated points in these conversations are that "Jesus was a highly intelligent man", and "Jesus seemed to stand on a higher moral plane than most of those around him". If these people spouting these ideas truly believe that Jesus was just a man, and if that belief were true, then both of the comments I just mentioned above would be patently false. Just consider please, that which follows:

 "...Again the high priest asked him, 'Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed One?''I am,' said Jesus. 'And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.'"

Mark 14:61b-62a

This is only one of the many occasions that Jesus claimed to be God. See Matthew 16:13-17;  Luke 22:70; John 5:24-27, (and far too many others to ever enumerate them here). Also consider, at least two of the above references to His Divinity were made by Jesus at His trial, statements that He knew full well would result in His being sentenced to death. The point here should be quite clear. If Jesus was in fact NOT God, then He was lying, and would not deserve the respect of being placed on a higher moral plane than those others around Him. Lying is never a sign of high morality. Plus, if He knew He wasn't the Son of God, then He also knew that He would not be resurrected, and His claims of Divinity before the authorities of the time, would amount to little more than what might have been the first example of "suicide by cop" that was ever heard of.

No, it just can't be had both ways; either Jesus was exactly who He claimed to be, The Son Of God, or He was a raving lunatic, and an habitual liar of a man, something, that I believe, no one who has studied His life would ever accept as a reasonable conjecture. And this is where we will have to pick it up tomorrow.

TO BE CONTINUED........

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[1] I just want to say that the principle of belief is probably of major importance in religions outside of Christianity as well, but being myself a Christian, I feel it would be presumptuous of be to discuss such matters here.

50 Erroneus Proofs of God's Non-Existence 1:77-80

This, then, is what Jesus was telling us in the Scriptures that you so carelessly, unless it was by design, misrepresented in the reference that we discussed in my previous Blog instalment (50 Erroneous Proofs of God's Non-Existence 1:71-76). Far from lying, He was telling His disciples that as of that time, they did not yet have faith, “as little as a mustard seed”. He was furthermore, assuring them that when they did acquire the necessary faith, which we know was to occur when they received the Holy Spirit, then they would become one with the Father, in Christ, and at that time “nothing would be impossible for them”. In the chapter-long prayer to His Father that we spoke of earlier when discussing John 17, Jesus is recorded as saying:

“…Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they (believers) also be in us…”

            John 17:21 (Parenthetical statement mine for clarification.)

You will probably have noticed that I completely left out any comment regarding the mid-section of your complaint, which seems to be the reason for your labeling of Jesus as “a liar”. That is mainly because that portion of your comment makes no sense at all. You refer to taking the Scripture “less-than-literally” and then completely revise it to say something that is very close to being the exact opposite of what Jesus actually said. Jesus did not say, “lots of things will be impossible for you”, nor did He say “everything will be impossible for you”, so what exactly is your point? What Jesus did say was that given sufficient faith, “nothing will be impossible for you” and I am certain that both, He said, and the original Greek  writers wrote, exactly what it was that He meant to say. Especially since the same statement of our Lord’s is recorded in more than one place in the Holy Word. So again, in regards to your comment about "taking things less-than-literally", I can only ask, “What’s your point?”

Matthew 21:21

“I tell you the truth, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and it will be done. If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer.” (sic)

Once again, it must first be noted that your reference is wrong to begin with. The words you have quoted are comprised of Matthew 21:21-22. Your comment reads,

“If "you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer"", then if we ask to cure cancer tonight, cancer should dissappear (sic). Right? Yet nothing happens. Note again that there is not a non-literal way to interpret "you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer", unless you replace "whatever" with "nothing" or "little."”

Since you have chosen to begin your argument at Matthew 21:22, which as pointed out earlier, is not even the verse which you claim to be referring to, it is there that I also will begin. The first three words that appear in this verse answer your entire question. Jesus says, with absolute clarity, “If you believe…”. This, by the word's very definition, immediately excludes all non-believers, and we’ve already discussed the fact that believers, if desiring that their prayer be heard in the first place, will be praying “according to the will of God”. We can thus take Jesus at His word, and expect to receive “whatever we ask for in prayer”, as long as what we ask for meets the basic requirements for, and in fact, truly is, praying in the first place. We have also already discussed the fact that God has nowhere in His Holy Word promised us the total disappearance of cancer, or other forms of human suffering, overnight.

As for your “non-literal” interpretation of our Lord’s words, you merely highlight the fact that it would be at the very least ill-advised for anyone to approach you for a “non-literal” interpretation of anything. Perhaps you should first consider the fact that the opposite of a “literal” translation of the Bible (or anything else) is not often, if ever, called a “non-literal” translation, but is more appropriately referred to as a “free”translation. Let me offer here an example in regards to the words which you have tried to interpret “non-literally”:

“…All that ever you ask in prayer you shall have, if you believe.”

            Matthew 21:22 (The Moffatt Translation)

You will note that the basic attempt here is to “clarify” the meaning, not to change it. To continually offer words that change the basic nature of what was actually said is simply a practice in deception. The point remains, the Lord said what the Lord meant to say, and there is no valid reason (except for deception) to change  the thought that is contained within the words. If I in turn, were to follow the example you have set, and told everyone that I was going to interpret your words “non-literally” (using the technique you are constantly using), the result would be that you would appear to be arguing my side of the argument. If you, then, desire that I take your statements at face value, why is it that you have such difficulty in extending the Lord the same courtesy?

I could go back now to verse 21, and we could discuss the implications of Jesus' statement about faith, but since that really isn't the verse you were apparently referring to in the first place, and since the same matter occurs in your next two references, I will abstain from answering you now, and we can discuss it further when we arrive to consider John 14:12-14. For now let us continue on in the order with which you presented your argument.

TO BE CONTINUED....

50 Erroneus Proofs of God's Non-Existence 1:70-76

Matthew 17:20

“For truly, I say to you, if you have faith as a grain of mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move; and nothing will be impossible to you.” (sic)

I find it necessary to repeat here your entire comment regarding this scripture, so that anyone reading this will not mistakenly think I have altered your argument in any way. Your comment reads:

“If ‘nothing will be impossible to you’, then if we ask to cure cancer tonight, cancer should disappear. Right? Yet nothing happens. Note that if we take the Bible less-than-literally here, the statement ‘nothing will be impossible to you’ becomes ‘lots of things will be impossible to you,’ and that would mean that Jesus is lying.”

I hardly know where to begin. Just for starters, you have left out the first sentence of the verse in question without making any mention, or giving any indication that you have done so (a simple ellipsis, “…”, prior to the word you began with would have sufficed). The sense of the entire statement is changed by your omission of this sentence, and in actuality, for the sake of clarity, you should also have included the verse prior to this one, Matthew 17:19, and it would be better still if you had included everything back to Matthew 17:14. I would really like to give you the benefit of the doubt, but I have to, at the very least, point out that this certainly has the appearance of deliberately trying to deceive your readers. Not to mention that you follow this apparent deception up by calling Jesus a “liar”, when in fact, it is your argument that is quite obviously designed to deceive. So let us now take a look at the context surrounding the Lord’s comment which you have chosen to question.

The first eight verses of Matthew 17 deal with the event that we have come to refer to as “The Transfiguration”. Immediately following this occasion, Jesus and the three disciples who had accompanied Him up the mountain, return to the crowd that they had earlier separated themselves from. Jesus is asked by a man to heal the man’s son, who suffers from violent “seizures”. The boy’s father also mentions that the disciples who had not gone with Jesus and the others up the mountain, had, in Jesus’ absence, tried to heal the boy themselves, but failed to do so. Verse 18 relates Jesus’ success in healing the boy, and then we come to the verse immediately prior to your reference, verse 19 (and I will also include with it your actual reference, verse 20, but with the initial sentence re-inserted):

“Then the disciples came to Jesus in private and asked, ‘Why couldn’t we drive it (the demon that was causing the seizures) out?’

“He (Jesus) replied, ‘because you have so little faith. For truly, I say to you, if you have faith as a grain of mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move; and nothing will be impossible to you.” (Emphasis and parenthetical statements mine for clarification.)

So clearly, Jesus was not telling them that they could perform such a feat at that time; He was, rather, explaining why they couldn’t. Because they still didn’t have faith the size of a mustard seed. And here, it must be noted that Jesus clearly had real purpose in His choice of comparison. This was not the only time that our Lord used the tiny little mustard seed as the chosen vehicle for relaying to His followers a very important lesson, or principle. Again, I’ll ask you to consider that which follows.

“He (Jesus) told them (in this case, the crowd that followed Him) another parable: ‘The kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed, which a man took and planted in his field. Though it is the smallest of all your seeds, yet when it grows, it is the largest of garden plants and becomes a tree, so that the birds of the air come and perch in its branches’.

            Matthew 13:31-32 (Parenthetical statements mine. cf., Mk 4:30-32)

In the same manner that Jesus used to illustrate the potential for growth, concerning “the kingdom of God”, in the parable that we have just read, so was He illustrating the potential for growth, concerning “faith”, when He answered the question put to Him by His disciples in our earlier reference from Matthew 17. The disciples, however, would not receive this type of faith unto themselves, a faith of such magnitude that it could be used to move mountains, until the events surrounding Pentecost, at which time they would receive from God the gift of the Holy Spirit, and the God-sanctioned ability, or privilege, to tap into the Spirit’s power at any time that they were both “in God’s will”, and acting “according” to that will. I personally cannot conceive of any reason why God would want to do such a thing as move a mountain from one place to another, but I do believe deeply, that from the moment of the disciples receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit, should a situation ever arise where it would for some unknown purpose seem reasonable, or necessary, to God, that such a thing be done, then any believer could be used by God to tap into the power of the Spirit, and mountains might indeed be moved. As I’ve already said, however, I can think of no earthly reason why God would want to do such a thing.

In yet another reference from the New Testament (remember that Scripture must be proved by Scripture), the same story of the boy afflicted by seizures is told again, this time by Mark. In his recollection of the event, Mark recalls Jesus telling the disciples, in answer to their question regarding their failure at casting out the demon responsible for the boy’s affliction, that:

“…”This kind can come out only by prayer.”

            Mark 9:29

There are at least three distinct, and important things that we can learn here from the words of our Saviour. First, the words “this kind” inform us that there are more than just a single type of demon by which this fallen world is plagued, apparently demons of varying strengths, and second, there are different degrees of skill (or faith?) required to achieve different purposes. Though the disciples did not yet have faith “as little as a mustard seed”, there are indeed earlier accounts of the twelve casting out some demons, and performing other miraculous works as well. Before Jesus first sent His disciples out on their own for a time, we are told:

“He called His twelve disciples to Him and gave them authority to drive out evil spirits, and to heal every disease and sickness.”

            Matthew 10:1

We are also told in Mark 6:12-13:

“They went out and preached that people should repent. They drove out many demons (by the authority Jesus had given them as noted in Matthew 10:1; see above) and anointed many sick people with oil and healed them.”

Yet as we have seen, they failed in their attempt to drive out the demon of concern in the story of the boy suffering from seizures. That is because their faith was still so small that only certain demons could be cast out by them; a “casting out” that was apparently effected by the use of the authority which Jesus had given them. And that is why Jesus replied to their question in Matthew 17 by stating that the reason for their failure was because they only had “such little faith”. 

Thirdly, it should be noted here, that in this account given in Mark, what Mark remembered Jesus as saying in regard to the disciples question, was that “this kind can only come out with prayer”. This in itself, is of utmost importance to our entire discussion about “how” one should pray. By Jesus’ statement regarding the necessity for prayer in casting out a particular type of demon, we realize that whatever method the disciples were using to perform their wondrous works, the authority for doing so which they had received from Jesus, they weren’t yet using “effective” prayer as a means to accomplishing their ends. Otherwise, they would have succeeded in casting out the demon in question, and there would also have been no reason for Mark to explain in chapter 6, verse 13, that the healings they performed, were done through the agency of anointing the sick with oil, once again, apparently not by the use of prayer. And this brings us back full circle to your comments on Matthew 17:20, where you ask:

“If "nothing will be impossible to you", then if we ask to cure cancer tonight, cancer should disappear. Right?”

We have already shown that Jesus was not telling His disciples what they “could” do, but was illustrating for them, what they “could not do”, and explaining to them “why” they could not do it at that time, because that type of demon could only be driven out by prayer. The reason is very clear if you have read the Bible with more diligence than it takes to extract random passages, and then sew them into a tapestry of you own design.

When we earlier referred to the works of John Bunyan, we illustrated quite clearly that a true prayer must reach God, “through” Christ Jesus. Since at the time in question, the disciples who failed to cast out the demon were not in the presence of God’s Son, who was up on the mountain experiencing His Transfiguration, there was no channel through which a prayer might be presented to the Father. As Jesus Himself said in Mark’s gospel, that particular type of demon could only be cast out by prayer, so there was no way the disciples could have succeeded. In whatever manner they cast out the earlier demons, since they were not in the presence of the Lord at those times either, we know that it wasn’t by prayer that they were casting them out, otherwise they would have had no need of Jesus’ explanation regarding prayer. They would already have prayed.

It may be unfortunate that we are not informed in more detail of the method that they did use, other than that it was by the authority Jesus had given them, and at times combined with the "anointing with oil", but that probably makes perfect sense, since it is not a limitation modern-day Christians have to contend with. By the power of God’s Spirit since His arrival at Pentecost,  and the right-of-access that true believer’s enjoy as the result of our relationship to the Father and His Son, we can live continually in the presence of the Father, through Christ, and in Christ, we have a permanent channel to the Father through which our prayers may pass. It must still be noted, however, that should we place ourselves outside the will of God, by disobedience to His will, or whatever other means, and thus create a wall of separation between ourselves and Jesus, or the Holy Spirit, once again God will cease to hear our prayers. As long as we remain in His will, however, we are one with Him, in Christ, and we share in the power of the Holy Spirit, and nothing will be impossible to us, as our Lord Himself stated:

“… ‘What is impossible with men is possible with God.’”

            Luke 18:27

(And with that, we will have to finish up with this reference tomorrow.)

TO BE CONTINUED....